explore collaboration with Flattr

[chadwhitacre]

Evan Schoepke from Flattr reached out to start a conversation about this. We just had a phone call. On one level it sounds like Flattr is interested in connecting more with the open source community, and is seeing Gittip as a possible partner in that effort. In that context, they'd be bringing access to other communities to the table.

I shared some of my open company vision for Gittip, and my interest in setting the plow rather deep, creatively disrupting economic exchange in general and not just particular industries. Given that Flattr shares a co-founder with The Pirate Bay, I suspect we might find some common ground. :-)

[chadwhitacre]

Just noticed that @jezdez brought this up on the non-US payouts thread (#126). Here's the recent announcement of Flattr's revenue sharing plan.

[chadwhitacre]

Questions regarding Flattr's revenue sharing program:

• How does Flattr's revenue sharing program interface with Gittip's open company model?
• What would the user experience be for users of Gittip?
• We would need to convert between dollars and flattrs, no? How would we do that?
• How would this impact our relationship with Balanced?

[thiloplanz]

Questions regarding Flattr's revenue sharing program

I have no inside into Flattr internals, but as a heavy Flattr user I think the following can be said based on public information about the revenue sharing program.

First of all, that program (as it is now) is for Flattr affiliates that drive additional traffic into Flattr's regular system. People doing the donation need to be Flattr members. This does not seem to directly integrate into Gittip's system (for example paying it through Gittip instead of Flattr seems impossible).

I think Gittip should become a Flattr rev-share partner, but this should not be the only part of the collaboration.

The rev-share works like this:

1. Gittip displays a Flattr button (or some other facility that results in a Flattr, can be automated via API for example)
2. Flattr user uses this button (only Flattr users can do that) to Flattr some content on Flattr (in this case a github user)
3. Normally, Flattr keeps 10% of the money involved. As part of the rev-share, Flattr shares this fee with Gittip (5% each by my understanding). Note that the fee is payed by the user anyway. The rev-share does not increase the amount the user pays, or the beneficiary receives. The difference is just that some of it goes to Gittip instead of Flattr now.

How does Flattr's revenue sharing program interface with Gittip's open company model?

All these payments should be made public by Gittip, on a per source (github user) basis.

As for what happens with the money, there are two options: Gittip could keep it to cover running expenses. Or it could pay out the amount to the Github user that was flattr'd (if that user is also a Gittip user).

What would the user experience be for users of Gittip?

I am thinking (at least for the first step), just a Flattr button on all Gittip pages. Something along the lines discussed in #104. Again, for the rev-share program in the current form, you need to be a Flattr user.

We would need to convert between dollars and flattrs, no? How would we do that?

For the rev-share program in its current form, no money from Gittip is involved. It is only about driving Flattr users to spend their Flattr budget on Flattr things. Again, for a first step this is good, but after implementing this the collaboration needs to become deeper (with Flattr also offering other ways to link the two systems).

I'll post some ideas I have about how to take this beyond the rev-share program later.

[thiloplanz]

I believe the most important goal of this collaboration is to allow Gittip users to donate to projects that are only on Flattr, and Flattr users to donate to projects only on Gittip, ideally without those projects having to do anything or even know about the other service (otherwise they could just claim their respective accounts)

In order for this to work, Gittip could pass on the money it has collected for those projects to Flattr, and vice versa.

There are two ways to do this, with explicit opt-in by the project, or automatically.

Explicit opt-in is in effect the same as claiming your Gittip account. This reduces this feature to Flattr as a payout method, but that would still be useful as it simplifies payments for people that are on both services (and probably also makes them cheaper) You should negotiate this with flattr. There are already services that pay money directly into peoples' flattr accounts, for example the Amazon-affiliate rev-share aFlattr. Flattr calls this a "campaign deposit", see https://getsatisfaction.com/flattr/topics/what_is_a_campaign_deposit The problem is that this goes into the so-called "Means", and cannot be payed out to the user, it can only be used to flattr. For a proper Gittip payout we'd probably want to have it go into "Revenues" (but still without any extra fees).

Automatically, without explicit opt-in, is controversial. My opinion is that it can only be done if there are no extra fees involved. If this can be negotiated, then Gittip could start processing payments for unclaimed accounts that happen to be on Flattr, and send the money to Flattr every week. For example to @jashkenas (who is unclaimed here, but registered on Flattr). But there must not be the 10% Flattr tax on this.

[chadwhitacre]

We're working on a partnership with Bountysource where users of both services will be able to spend their Gittip balance on Bountysource bounties (#872). Once that shakes out we could look at something similar with Flattr.

[chadwhitacre]

+1 from @demisflanagan in private email.

[thiloplanz]

where users of both services will be able to spend their Gittip balance on Bountysource bounties. Once that shakes out we could look at something similar with Flattr.

Or the other way around: Being able to fund your weekly Gittip donations from your Flattr balance. That would be awesome, allowing me to finally actually join Gittip (without having to wait for bitcoin or pre-paid-balance support).

Crossposted at: https://getsatisfaction.com/flattr/topics/fund_your_gittip_donations_from_your_flattr_balance?rfm=1

[chadwhitacre]

+1 from @rikai via Twitter (2, 3).

[waldyrious]

+1 what @thiloplanz said.

[chadwhitacre]

+1 from @Darkhogg via Twitter.

[chadwhitacre]

I'm tightening up Gittip's product scope and a programmatic connection w/ Flattr is out of scope (cf. #299 #827).

I'm leaving #104 open.